(Left: Mr. Cliff Poon, Mr. Peter Fung and Dr. Aaron Tong)
The first speaker was Ir. Dr. Aaron Tong (Managing Director & Principal Consultant, TQM) and he shared the Changes and Challenges of ISO 9001:2015 & ISO 14001:2015. In the beginning, he briefed his ISO background included the 1st one obtained ISO 9001 in Hong Kong & PRC in 1991; TC-176 Hong Kong Observer, Past Chairman of HKIE-MIE Division, Former Chairman of HKSQ and ASQ trainer for Six Sigma Black Belt, etc.
Then Dr. Aaron Tong introduced the journey of ISO 9001 from 1987 to 2015. He said the critical change was the 3rd Edition in 2000 in which introduced the management model based on PDCA. He added the key of model management was “close-loop feedback system”.
ISO 14001 Journey also mentioned from 1996 to 2015. Both standards were transferred by BS that BS 5750 to ISO 9001 and BS 7750 to ISO 14001. Aaron said the top number of certificate on ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 was China which granted 337033 and 104735 in 2013, respectively.
The process approach was discussed and he explained the different of continuous improvement and continual improvement. He said continuous improvement was “Today better than Yesterday” for short period of time. However, we couldn’t ensure improvement every time. So “Continual improvement” was used for longer period of time such as quarterly or yearly.
After that Aaron described the process approach model of ISO 9001:2015 & ISO 14001:2015 and shared the major changes below:
For ISO 9001,
i) Adopt New High Level Structure (HLS)
ii) Leadership insert “Management Responsibility”. However, Aaron disagree this change because leader and manager was in different role. No mention on MR. He discussed the right person for MR who should be GM rather than QA.
iii) Context of the Organization stated interested parties
iv) Focus on Internal and External forces
v) Remove Preventive Actions. Aaron said preventive action was different to verify and ISO 9001 standard is designed for audit assessment which avoid subjective in nature.
vi) Risk-Based Thinking was adopt from other standards such as ISO 14001 (Environmental Aspect)
vii) Documented Information (where Manual is no longer necessary and more flexible)
viii) Organization knowledge. Aaron said it may be referred from Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award (MBNQA) model.
ix) Separated Products and Services again
x) External Providers insert Suppliers
xi) Externally Provided Products and Services insert Purchased Products
i) Adopt New High Level Structure (HLS)
ii) Leadership insert “Management Responsibility”. However, Aaron disagree this change because leader and manager was in different role. No mention on MR. He discussed the right person for MR who should be GM rather than QA.
iii) Context of the Organization stated interested parties
iv) Focus on Internal and External forces
v) Remove Preventive Actions. Aaron said preventive action was different to verify and ISO 9001 standard is designed for audit assessment which avoid subjective in nature.
vi) Risk-Based Thinking was adopt from other standards such as ISO 14001 (Environmental Aspect)
vii) Documented Information (where Manual is no longer necessary and more flexible)
viii) Organization knowledge. Aaron said it may be referred from Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award (MBNQA) model.
ix) Separated Products and Services again
x) External Providers insert Suppliers
xi) Externally Provided Products and Services insert Purchased Products
For ISO 14001,
i) Environmental Performance such as determine criteria to evaluate it using appropriate indicators
ii) Focus on Protection of Environment rather than prevention of pollution
iii) Life Cycle and Value Chain Perspective was added.
Finally, Aaron said the name of ISO 9001 – Quality Management System was not appropriate. It could be better named “Management System’s Quality”.
The second speaker was Mr. Cliff Poon (SGS Certification Manager) and he shared the transition to ISO 9001:2015 & ISO 14001:2015 in Certification Body perspectives.
In the beginning, he introduced the Annex SL and High Level Structure (HLS), which consisted of 4 appendices and proposes 10 clauses in Management Systems development, issued in 2012. Unitl new, there were four standards followed this HLS included ISO 22301:2012, ISO/IEC 27001:2013, ISO 9001 (FDIS) and ISO 14001 (FDIS). There were several benefits using Annex SL below:
i) Based on the same format
ii) Have the same structure, core text, terms and conditions
iii) Have discipline specific requirements
iv) Will be consistent
v) Smoother integration of standards
Then Mr. Cliff Poon shared the changes in external audit such as top management involvement and leadership demonstration, risk based consideration and probably lesser reliance on system documentation. About Risk-Based Thinking, it could go through the standards in the following clauses. PDCA was also found Plan (Clause 6), Do (Clause 8), Check (Clause 9), Act (Clause 10); Clause 7 is Support to the whole process.
After that Cliff stated there was 3 years transition from official publication of the international standards (ISO 9001 and ISO 14001). Some transition arrangements were mentioned such as “ISO 9001:2008 + ISO 9001:2015” and “ISO 14001:2004 + ISO 14001:2015”. The “To-Do-List” for preparation of transition was shared.
Finally, he shared the “Guidance for Preparation of Transition Arrangement” from IAF ID09 and ID 10:2015 as follows:
i) Identify organization gaps which need to be addressed to meet new requirements
ii) Develop an implementation plan
iii) Provide appropriate training and awareness for all parties that have an impact on the effectiveness of the organization
iv) Update the existing management systems (QMS & EMS) to meet the revised requirements and provide verification of effectiveness
v) Liaise with SGS for transition arrangements
Q&A Session:
I asked how many items from risk management to be enough for new ISO 9001 standard. Cliff said there was no passing level for enough or not. It depended on organization processes. Aaron added he would observe company’s customer complaint and defect rate to verify their risk assessment to be effective or not.
Cliff had mentioned their new training series of Management Skill for Top Management such as “2-Days Empowering Leadership in Management Systems and Standard”. I queried that C-suite could only expense (not invest) half or one hour for ISO new requirement. Eventhough second level of top management, I estimated that they would like to attend only half-day seminar. Cliff would consider my suggestion if any executive summary of such training.
At end of the seminar, HKSQ exco took a group photo with guest speakers.
(Left: Mr. Peter Fung, Dr. Aaron Tong, Mr. Chiff Poon and I)
Reference:
HKSQ - www.hksq.org
Other related seminars:
20120519: HKQAA Seminar on the next version of ISO 9001:2015 - http://qualityalchemist.blogspot.hk/2012/05/hkqaa-seminar-on-next-version-of-iso.html
20141201: HKQAA Seminar on ISO 9001 & ISO 14001 Revisions - http://qualityalchemist.blogspot.hk/2014/12/hkqaa-seminar-on-iso-9001-iso-14001.html
20150529: HKQAA Symposium 2015 (Part 1) - http://qualityalchemist.blogspot.hk/2015/05/hkqaa-symposium-2015-part-1.html
20150529: HKQAA Symposium 2015 (Part 2) - http://qualityalchemist.blogspot.hk/2015/05/hkqaa-symposium-2015-part-2.html
20150710: HKQAA Seminar on the Next Generation of Management System Standards (ISO 9001:2015) - http://qualityalchemist.blogspot.hk/2015/07/hkqaa-seminar-on-next-generation-of.html
i) Environmental Performance such as determine criteria to evaluate it using appropriate indicators
ii) Focus on Protection of Environment rather than prevention of pollution
iii) Life Cycle and Value Chain Perspective was added.
Finally, Aaron said the name of ISO 9001 – Quality Management System was not appropriate. It could be better named “Management System’s Quality”.
The second speaker was Mr. Cliff Poon (SGS Certification Manager) and he shared the transition to ISO 9001:2015 & ISO 14001:2015 in Certification Body perspectives.
In the beginning, he introduced the Annex SL and High Level Structure (HLS), which consisted of 4 appendices and proposes 10 clauses in Management Systems development, issued in 2012. Unitl new, there were four standards followed this HLS included ISO 22301:2012, ISO/IEC 27001:2013, ISO 9001 (FDIS) and ISO 14001 (FDIS). There were several benefits using Annex SL below:
i) Based on the same format
ii) Have the same structure, core text, terms and conditions
iii) Have discipline specific requirements
iv) Will be consistent
v) Smoother integration of standards
Then Mr. Cliff Poon shared the changes in external audit such as top management involvement and leadership demonstration, risk based consideration and probably lesser reliance on system documentation. About Risk-Based Thinking, it could go through the standards in the following clauses. PDCA was also found Plan (Clause 6), Do (Clause 8), Check (Clause 9), Act (Clause 10); Clause 7 is Support to the whole process.
After that Cliff stated there was 3 years transition from official publication of the international standards (ISO 9001 and ISO 14001). Some transition arrangements were mentioned such as “ISO 9001:2008 + ISO 9001:2015” and “ISO 14001:2004 + ISO 14001:2015”. The “To-Do-List” for preparation of transition was shared.
Finally, he shared the “Guidance for Preparation of Transition Arrangement” from IAF ID09 and ID 10:2015 as follows:
i) Identify organization gaps which need to be addressed to meet new requirements
ii) Develop an implementation plan
iii) Provide appropriate training and awareness for all parties that have an impact on the effectiveness of the organization
iv) Update the existing management systems (QMS & EMS) to meet the revised requirements and provide verification of effectiveness
v) Liaise with SGS for transition arrangements
Q&A Session:
I asked how many items from risk management to be enough for new ISO 9001 standard. Cliff said there was no passing level for enough or not. It depended on organization processes. Aaron added he would observe company’s customer complaint and defect rate to verify their risk assessment to be effective or not.
Cliff had mentioned their new training series of Management Skill for Top Management such as “2-Days Empowering Leadership in Management Systems and Standard”. I queried that C-suite could only expense (not invest) half or one hour for ISO new requirement. Eventhough second level of top management, I estimated that they would like to attend only half-day seminar. Cliff would consider my suggestion if any executive summary of such training.
At end of the seminar, HKSQ exco took a group photo with guest speakers.
(Left: Mr. Peter Fung, Dr. Aaron Tong, Mr. Chiff Poon and I)
Reference:
HKSQ - www.hksq.org
SEEM, CityU – http://www.cityu.edu.hk/seem/
HKIE-MI Division – http://mi.hkie.org.hk/
Other related seminars:
20141201: HKQAA Seminar on ISO 9001 & ISO 14001 Revisions - http://qualityalchemist.blogspot.hk/2014/12/hkqaa-seminar-on-iso-9001-iso-14001.html
20150529: HKQAA Symposium 2015 (Part 1) - http://qualityalchemist.blogspot.hk/2015/05/hkqaa-symposium-2015-part-1.html
20150529: HKQAA Symposium 2015 (Part 2) - http://qualityalchemist.blogspot.hk/2015/05/hkqaa-symposium-2015-part-2.html
20150710: HKQAA Seminar on the Next Generation of Management System Standards (ISO 9001:2015) - http://qualityalchemist.blogspot.hk/2015/07/hkqaa-seminar-on-next-generation-of.html
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